MD gets real with Joey Jordison - methods and motives with Slipknot, Zombie and Murderdolls
January 2011
Slipknot's ever active drummer - who's recently added new Murderdolls and Rob Zombie projects to his already significant workload - puts down the mask and gets us closer to understanding his unusual methods and motivations.
When I first met Joey Jordison, at the 2010 Rockstar Energy Drink Mayhem Festival, I wasn't quite sure what to expect. Aside from the aura of mystery that has long accompanied Slipknot, here was the drummer who had powered the musical juggernaut to platinum-selling albums and a Grammy award, who had played with everyone from Rob Zombie to Metallica, who perennially ranks in Modern Drummer's Readers Poll, and who's an all-around inspiration to a new generation of skins bashers, me included. It's easy to assume a drummer with such an impressive resume would sport a hot-air-balloon-size head. Not Jordison. He carried himself with well-earned confidence while at the same time being thoughtful and down to earth.
Fast-forward a bit, and I'm on the phone with Jordison for this months cover feature. Not only does he remember our previous meeting, but he speaks to me as if we were old friends catching up. He lets me in on everything from what it's like to be thought of as one today's greatest drummers by his own peers to the inner workings of Slipknot and the recently resurrected Murderdolls to some of his exciting plans for the next decade of his career. As you'll see, there's more than meets the eye to this musical mastermind.
MD: You continually win polls and get referenced by fans as one of the greatest players of your generation. How does ot feel to receive that kind of recognition from the drumming community?
JOEY: All I can say is thank you to every Slipknot fan and everyone who's followed my career with all the bands I've played with. I've received a bunch of stuff like that - drum awards and of course a Grammy - and it still boggles my mind. I'm like, is this real? But, you know. I work for what I've achieved, and I will continue to work just as hard and try to keep pushing myself.
MD: You've also been held in high regard by other big-name drummers - everyone from Chris Adler and Dave Lombardo to Stewart Copeland and Thomas Pridgen.
JOEY: Those are all great drummers too. The fact that I'm in the company of those guys makes me feel great.
MD: Has gaining that sort of prestige affected the way you approach drumming or put any pressure on you?
JOEY: Oh, no. no. The thing about the way I play is, I go for blood. I don't think about anything besides the song and the way the song needs to be driven. Being the backbone of any band I've ever been in. I just kind of black out in a weird way, so I don't think about other drummers. When I'm home rocking out, that's different. Stewart Copeland is one of my favourite drummers of all time. He's a great friend of mine, and that guy rules. Zenyatta Mondatta is one of my favourite records of all time. But when I play, I just go out and basically it's a war. That's the best wat to put how I play.
MD: Slipknot's most recent album, 2008's All Hope Is Gone , encapsulates everything the band had done on the previous three records but explores new territory as well. What was the collective mindset going into making that album?
MD: How about writing the drum parts?
JOEY: When I write a riff, I never have to think about what the drums are going to do; I already know. The way I write riffs, they’re very rhythmic, so I never worry about the drums at all. We have a bunch of weird ways of writing in Slipknot. Like, Jim [Root, guitarist] and I wrote “Sulfur” in his kitchen, [laughs] I took my V-Drums over there, and we wrote that whole song; we demoed it. It just depends.
MD: I really like the break at the end of "Sulfur", especially the latter part.
JOEY: The end riff? Dude, that thing rules. That riff is the same type of feel as at the end of "(sic)" [from Slipknot's self-titled album]. Like, it physically pisses me off. Seriously, when I hit that riff at the very end...it's one of the most powerful riffs metal's ever had. It's the same as the end of "Disasterpiece" [from Iowa]. That's what Slipknot does. I mean, when we write a song, it's for real. It's not a f**king joke.
MD: You know you have something great in metal when you have that feeling of aggression when you're playing it and when you're listening to it.
JOEY: Yeah, we won't finish a song until we look each other in the eye and no-one's lying. If not all nine of us feeling it, then it won't exist. It doesn't matter who starts the song or who wrote the riff - when all of us get together, it needs to be complete destruction at all times.
MD: Another standout track is "Gehenna." It's different from anything else on the record - and kind of different from anything Slipknot had done before.
JOEY: "Gehenna" is one of my favorite Slipknot songs. Paul wrote most of it. I have a couple of riffs in it, but it doesn't matter...[Singer] Corey Taylor's lyrics. everything on that song is just amazing. It's one of the most haunting Slipknot songs, totally nightmarish. It's not an easy song to listen to if you're not prepared for it. [laughs]
MD: The drum parts are unusual too. It's really sparse in the verses, it had those clicks, and then on "&" of 4 of every other measure, it's got those jarring snare hits.
JOEY: Yeah, totally. You hit the nail on the head. The drums on "Gehenna" are unique, and that comes from listening to many different drummers and learning from many different people. And I think that's why my drumming hits home a little bit more than maybe some other artists'. I'm not about speed all the time. I'm already known for that, but a track like "Gehenna" shows why I don't consider Slipknot to be just a metal band. I mean, don't get me wrong, we play metal, but all the other elements in our music are what makes Slipknot unique.
MD: On All Hope Is Gone, Clown [percussionist Shawn Crahan] branches out and plays some traditional drum-set. "Til We Die," on the special edition of the album, was the only song to make the cut.
JOEY: Yeah. I didn't make it to the first day of recording because I had some family stuff going on. They went in and just jammed, and Shawn is a great drummer - a lot different from me, but a great drummer. They had the stem of "Til We Die" and were recording it, and I was like "I won't interrupt. He can have that. I don't need to interject on that at all." It was cool that Shawn had his spot on "Til We Die".
MD: Some drummers in that situation would get territorial or defensive.
JOEY: Not me. I know my spot, I know exactly what I'm doing, and I know who I am.
MD: You write a lot of Slipknot songs on guitar. What songs on All Hope Is Gone did you play a major part in writing?
JOEY: Man, I hate saying “I,” because it's not about me. I don't look at Slipknot as about me, you know? But to be completely honest, because I won't lie, a good majority of our songs have started with my guitar riffs, then I'd work them out with Paul. The first song I wrote for the record was “Psychosocial,'' and the second was “Vendetta.''
JOEY: Well, it depends on the riff. I don't look at drumming like you need to be the hardest and the fastest or anything like that. You need to concentrate on the riff and get right into the meat of what the riff is. On “Psychosocial," for instance, when I recorded that track, I was just bashing the drums. They had to actually back down the track, [laughs] It was probably the loudest track I recorded. Mix-wise, if you listen to it closely, it sounds a little different from some of the other songs when I'm playing super-fast double bass and stuff. “Psychosocial" was the first riff I wrote for All Hope Is Gone. When I was writing that song and got to the main riff, dude, I was like, “This is gonna rule—this record is gonna go straight to number one." And it did.
MD: The first full song on All Hope Is Gone is “Gematria (The Killing Name)." That's an old-school, aggressive, primal Slipknot song. It has all these different parts that enable you to get a lot of your trademark drumming in—everything from very fast double bass to a lot of tom rolls and some more open beats as well.
JOEY: “Gematria" is one of my favorite Slipknot songs. The intro drum part.. .it's kind of a weird story. I was just warming up, just playing [sings the intro beat], and then Paul and I got into the opening riffs of one of our old thrash bands from a long time ago. The rest of the song is different, but it was like, “Oh, man, should we resurrect this riff?" That riff is just crazy. It doesn’t really make any sense. It’s like the most metal version of introverted jazz, but it’s crushing.
MD: You’ve said you always start writing on guitar, but that sounds like a song that might have gotten a head start with the drums.
JOEY: No, I always start with guitar. “Wait And Bleed" [from Slipknot ], “Duality" [Vol. 3: The Subliminal Verses] , “Left Behind" [Iowa] ...all those songs started with guitar. But like I said, I always know what the drums are going to do anyway.
MD: You’ve recently put out the first Murderdolls album in eight years, Women And Children Last. Besides the fact that you primarily play guitar live, how does Joey Jordison of the Murderdolls differ from Joey Jordison of Slipknot?
JOEY: Not much at all. I mean, it’s two completely different styles, obviously, but you're seeing the same person that you see when you see me with Slipknot. I have the same intensity. I don't have intentions of trying to be different or anything like that. The Murderdolls are just as much a part of my soul as Slipknot is.
It took me a while to resurrect the Murderdolls because IVe been so busy with so many different bands. But with all the bands IVe been in, if I don’t believe in it, I won’t play it. The Murderdolls are a big part of my life, though eventually I have to get back to writing another Slipknot record—I already have a lot of songs.
MD: Do you approach Murderdolls riffs differently from Slipknot riffs?
JOEY: No, it’s just a different side of me that’s always been in my soul. The first record, Beyond The Valley Of The Murderdolls, was cool, and I like it a lot, but it’s nothing at all like this new one. The first record was more of a blueprint. It worked and it was great and everything, but those are all demos that we did. Roadrunner Records wanted to put it out, and we were like, “Great.” Corey wanted to go out and do Stone Sour, so basically we said, “Let’s just put this thing out and go party our asses off!” And that’s pretty much what we did. [laughs] Weirdly enough, it worked.
We’re taking this album a lot more seriously than the first one. This one I consider to be the first Murderdolls record because it’s the first time [singer] Wednesday and I sat down and actually wrote songs together. These are all brand-new songs. There’s nothing rehashed from my old band the Rejects and nothing from his old band Frankenstein Drag Queens From Planet 13, which is what the first Murderdolls record is. This is really the first genuine Murderdolls record, and dude, I’m so excited about it. It rules, and everyone who has heard it is just like, “What the hell did you guys do?” I’m like, “We just sat down and rocked.”
It was cool. The first song we recorded was “Homicide Drive,” and the drumming you hear on it is the original take. Wednesday didn’t know where to go after the second chorus, but I already knew where it was going. When I was done with the take I was like, “Man, maybe I should do an edit.... Nah, I’m gonna keep it the way it is,” because it reminds me of the good feeling of the Murderdolls getting back together.
JOEY: That song started out as kind of a joke, but for big Murderdolls fans it might be one of their favorites. It’s so catchy that we might actually have to make a video for it. [laughs] We call the handclaps “the Beach Boys part.” We still have to have that joke element— that’ll never leave.
MD: When we spoke at the Mayhem Festival, you said that your guitar style is completely different from your drumming style. How would you compare them?
JOEY: My drumming style is what it is— very aggressive and very intense. My guitar playing is a little more on the fun side. That’s kind of why I did the Murderdolls in the first place. Playing live with the Murderdolls is kind of the same as with Slipknot. Like I said, it’s like going to war—we just have a more lively, fun element, like, “Let’s bring the fun back to rock 'n' roll.”
MD: How different is it playing in front of the crowd on guitar instead of from behind the drumkit?
JOEY: I don't like to compare the two too much because they're different bands, but my mentality and my heart and soul are completely in the same place whether I'm playing guitar or drums. Though on the drumkit I have to concentrate a lot more, [laughs] I have to be pretty on point. The Murderdolls are a little more dangerous, more sloppy—like the Sex Pistols 2010.
MD: How do you approach production?
JOEY: I'm the first one there and the last one to leave, always—because I care too much about what I do. I have a different technique from most people too— different EQ equations. And I concentrate on the drums completely first. I don't care about scratch tracks or anything like that. I EQ it and produce it according to what the band should sound like, so I make sure the drums sound perfect. I’ll worry about the cymbals later.
Then, once I get the guitars right, the bass and vocals are easy. When I get into mastering.. .that’s always a bitch. That process, I hate, [laughs] Because I have everything perfect, and then people can mess it up—not intentionally, of course. It just takes me a while to make sure it's perfect. I listen to the music in my two cars, in my living room, on a little clock radio, on my downstairs system, and through a PA, because I want to make sure that everything sounds right.
The first song Ross Robinson and I mixed on the first Slipknot record was “Purity.” We probably did that song forty-five times. That’s how long it took to get the sound of the first album. And even though that record is raw as hell, it rules. I'm really proud of that. I mean, I love all our records, but there's some¬ thing about the sound of that one. It’s punk rock in a way. We were so hungry. It took me a while, man, but we got it.
MD: You were also one of the team captains for Roadrunner United, a project where you wrote the songs, played on them, chose the other musicians, and produced. Having experienced being in charge of the entire process, have you considered doing your own solo project?
JOEY: I have. There are a lot of songs I've written that don’t fit in the Murderdolls world or the Slipknot world at all. And there are a lot of people that I would like to work with. I'll get to that point when I get there.
MD: Besides recording a solo album, do you have other goals going into the next decade of your career?
JOEY: I want to learn to play the violin— no joke. Because it seems very difficult, and I've never played a stringed instrument besides guitar. In the future, when I get a break, I really want to sit down with a teacher and learn how to play. My [non-Slipknot/ Murderdolls] solo stuff is not necessarily that heavy, and at one point I thought, Man, if I could study the violin, this could really be good.
And my sister, who's an amazing singer—she sings on my Puscifer remix of “Drunk With Power”—she'd probably sing on it too. But that stuff is way different from anything I’ve ever done, and I think it would freak out a lot of people. But I don't think Slipknot or Murderdolls fans would think it’s that weird—I mean, it’s gonna be weird, but it wouldn't be weird that I'm doing it.
MD: So hopefully in the future we’ll get a solo Joey Jordison album with some violin.
JOEY: Oh, it's gonna happen. I promise you.
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